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Patrick
Messages : 2437
Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 18:01:13

Hi to all, maybe you followed my thread regarding the old "Victors Gramophone" http://www.artlantis.com/gramophone_f-atl_wip-20116.html. I tried several (many) settings regarding the brass but I'm still not satisfied with the results. Doesn't matter what changes I make the rendered texture looks for me a little like covered with a glossy coating. Here are some photos of old Victors gramophones were you can see what result I tried to achieve regarding the polished brass. Anyone out there having some perfect settings for metal or polished brass? The original shaders of ATL are not perfect regarding a realistic result. Cheers Patrick

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 18:01:37

And another one

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 18:01:55



Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 18:02:28

And another one

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 18:09:57

And here my last attempt to create some realistic looking polished brass. Still not really satisfied. I saw other results of metal created with an unbiased render engine looking much more realistic. Cheers Patrick

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 22:02:23

Hi Patrick, I spent some little time this evening trying to achive something a bit close to ur images of real brass.. Don't think it's what u looking for.. anyway here r my results.. :-) Natalia

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 22:03:30



natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 22:04:01



natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 22:04:34



natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/13/2010 22:07:59
Attachment : Gramophone N091210.3DS.zip

and here in an archive file with the object (all materials are not sepateted)to try and achive something better!! Good luck..

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 08:16:11

Hi Natalia, thanks a lot for your attempts. I have the same texture in my archive but sorry. I still think that this is not realistic looking. The image above is by now my best attempt to simulate some realistic polished brass. Cheers Patrick

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 08:39:10

And here is another one of which I think it's more or less near to realism. I used the fresnel water shader and added the brass texture.

Lennie
Messages : 1384
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 08:55:11

Hi Patrick I think the brass needs something to reflect, maybe start with a mirror finish then put a few objects or pictures behind your viewpoint then try your brass finish. Mike

jacek
Messages : 60
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 10:59:29

hi natalia, hi patrick thanks for the file. its an interesting model to play with the brass. i think an animation would be great with an old record from louis armstrong ;-)) jacek

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 11:04:39

Hi Patrick, I like ur last image.. Think its a bit too bright though.. If i compare it with real photos there's more color and deepth in real brass... But im sure u gonna achive it soon!! :-)

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/14/2010 11:52:43

Hi Jacek, nice try but a little more like copper and still not really polished. I'm still looking. That's something making me angry if I compare the metal in ATL with some unbiased render engines. But I'm sure I will find some settings. I only don't know when :-( Cheers Patrick

emkay
Messages : 267
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 00:39:17

IMO, you should mimic the photographed gramofon in term of the lightings. In your rendered images, you use 'natural' light (helidon). Try using point lights, maybe it is not about the shader or materials setting after all.

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 09:07:22

Hi Emkay, maybe you are right and I know that there are more possibilities by playing with some artificial lights, too. But if you look at the photos posted above you can easily see that there are also some photos taken outside or just with the sun. It's not only this old gramophone. I try to find some settings for textures (metal like brass and chromium) working under any light-source without tweaking the settings again and again. If you have a look at some other render engines there are metals working like metal in real world does. You just apply the material and that's it. Doesn't matter if you use artificial or natural light. If you look from top, bottom left or right side. It will always look like real metal does. By now I have the problem in ATL that if the metal seems to be realistic in the one view it surely will look like sh.. in some other view. That's a waste of time and annoying. The standard shaders for metal are not realistic at all. Compared to the results of VRay and others these metals look like plastic or something painted with yellowish colors. Not metal at all. Because of the fact that some of them are made with the expert shader you will see this metals having some glow in a night scene. I never saw my furniture glowing when I turned down the lights:-) OK. You can reduce the influence of neon down to 5 or something like this and the glowing will be gone but if you have a close look at them rendered image of the gramophone you will see some bright white areas in parts I made with this expert shaders. And believe me. There is nothing white to be reflected as these areas at all. The settings for this chromium or brass are also nothing white, too (maybe I should post a detail showing what I mean). Maybe somebody already solved this problem. If so please post the settings or some postcard. Cheers Patrick

Bernhard
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 09:59:05

Hi Emkay, here is the detail where you can see what I mean. The brass parts showing these white shining areas were made with the expert or better said chromium shader. The neon was already decreased down to 5 (standard setting is 80). I just tested and set neon down to 0 and what should I say? The white shine will be gone completely. The problem is that soon as you increase that neon higher than 0 this white area will come back. Strange is that the color of the neon was not set to black, grey or white. It was set to a color similar to the brass. If there is some shining like shown is this detail it should be in the color of brass and not white. That's why I complain about the metal in ATL. This simply is not realistic. Cheers Patrick

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 10:15:10

OK. Now I have to excuse and correct myself. In the image shown above there is this white glowing gone and I set the neon to 1.27. Higher settings will make this white glowing come back. In my opinion this result is much better than the one shown before. I think best will be to make several different scenes with metal in use (like this one) and make postcards of these scenes. Cheers Patrick

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 17:42:34

Hello Patrick and natka_pl .... I have made me want to try ... here is the image that exit out. Greetings http://lucianocuntreri.blogspot.com/

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 18:39:49

Ok ... I am now a bit more free and I want to describe what I did ... ... only with shaders based atl, can not come to reality ... you always have to put a texture and give a reflection ... At the same time you should enter as a beautiful backdrop cubic (*. mov) ... so only the assigned come to life ... Finally, the UV mapping ... then give more realism to the scene. A big greetings http://lucianocuntreri.blogspot.com/

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 19:03:20

Hi Luciano! Ur image is great!!! Just don't quite understand how did u achive brass like that.. I know u used texture but whats a backdrop cubic i don't know.. :-) Can u show us the settings..? Would appreciate a lot!! Cheers Natalia

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:10:44

Here I am ... I enclose two pictures that contain the settings used. The first

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:11:58

The second image

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:14:16

I attach the texture used for the material brass

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:20:36

Of course, were also activated the parameters: first bounce and next bounce ... in addition to activation of the contrast. http://lucianocuntreri.blogspot.com/

Patrick
Messages : 2437
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:23:34

Hi Luciano, many thanks for all the advice. Cheers Patrick

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:31:28

Hello Patrick, how are you? :-) I forgot the settings of artificial light http://lucianocuntreri.blogspot.com/

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:40:01

Thank u Randy!!!

Luciano Cuntreri
Messages :
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 22:40:25

Excuse me but I wanted to point out that in the manuals Artlantis 3, made by the friends of ArchiRADAR in three languages ... Italian, English and French, there are tutorials on how to get very precise realism with Artlantis. Some of these are made by me .. and this little test render I did today, is just one part of a more comprehensive tutorial. http://www.archiradar.it/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=88&category_id=33&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=294&lang=it http://www.archiradar.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=162%3Ail-nostro-libro-di-artlantis-3-in-francese&catid=45%3Aartlantis&lang=it greetings http://lucianocuntreri.blogspot.com/

natka_pl
Messages : 286
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 23:34:16

Good point out (if there is an expression like that! :-)! I guees after this horrible for my budget christmas time i will seriously consider buying the english version.. wish there was something in polish though.. :-( thanks Luciano!

Martin
Messages : 158
Re: Realistic metal/brass
Sent : 12/15/2010 23:50:55

I have bought the "book" (pdf file). It is very good. I am not finished, probably never will. When I have a certain problem, I search the book by topic. Artlantis Attitude by Dwight is also very good.


 
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